Mopping Up

, let me have you guys, turn in your Bibles to First Timothy chapter 2. We've got a tremendous amount of ground that we want to cover, this morning. 1 Timothy chapter 2. For those of you that are visiting with us or haven't been here in a while, we're doing a verse by verse study through the book of First Timothy and as we continue in our study, of this book, we, we come to the very end of our study of First Timothy chapter 2, verses 9 through 15.

And last week, having completed our exposition of verse 15, and hence this section of First Timothy, on women's issues, what I want to do today is to, try to clean up some of the messes that we have made. So, the title of the message is mopping up. All right? over the course, when, when we look at a passage like First Timothy 2:9 through 15, this is a passage that is maddeningly, countercultural.

And, because of that, it creates a struggle even for people in our church family as, they're hearing stuff that, that runs counter to maybe what they have, always thought and never really, examined what their thinking was in light of scripture. There's even some interpretive challenges in, in these verses, especially verse 15, as we saw last week. Then once you settle on some of the interpretation issues, there's applicational, issues that can be a little bit, complicated to, to think through.

And so, we're not surprised at all that as we've gone through these verses over the last, 6 weeks that, that questions have, come to us.

We've even encouraged that. And so today, we want to try to cover as many of those questions as we can. before we, do so, I, I just want to say a quick thank you to you as a congregation for being you. this is one of those seasons where I feel especially blessed to be one of the pastors here at, at Cornerstone.

the thing I love about this congregation is that your heart's desire is just tell us what God's word says. That's all we care about. Tell us what it says, and we'll, we'll do it. And you guys have, have been exactly that way over the course.

Of the, the, the last month. There are pastors that would never preach on 1 Timothy 2, especially verse 12, and not because they're cowards, and I'm not. No, they got different congregations than, than what we have here. And their fear is, man, if I preach on this, I'm going to make some ladies really angry and So either I can skip it or if I'm going to go through it, I got to figure out how to say this so that I don't offend any of the ladies in our church family.

But see, I don't, I don't really have that problem. And that's like, I'm so grateful for that. Weeks before I got to this passage, I had women coming up to me saying, when you get to these verses, don't go weak on us. You tell us straight up what the Bible says.

And don't you worry about offending us in any way. made me uncomfortable. Made me uncomfortable because I felt like they were instructing me, but No, I'm totally kidding. Totally kidding.

But, I was blessed by that because for me, as I'm studying this passage, the offense that I need to worry about is that, I'm thinking I don't want to offend. any, any ladies by compromise. How cool is that, that we have that issue, to think through as we prepare, a message on a passage like this. So I'm really blessed.

And, and a number of you ladies, this has been a, a, a journey for you over the last few weeks, a journey you're still on, where some of this stuff hasn't been easy. It's different than what you've always, maybe, grew up in or have been thinking, but, but you've been struggling. You've been working it through. You've been asking questions, and I want to commend you for not turning your face away from this text.

You could have done that in your life. would have been simpler. But instead, what you've done is you've stared at it, you've looked at other passages, you're searching the scriptures, you're asking honest and searching questions. And I want to thank you for letting me be your friend on that journey and for letting us here at Cornerstone just play a small role in helping you as you think through God's truth, as it relates to, these issues.

So, as we come to the end of all of this, I just feel really blessed to have arrived here and, very blessed by the congregation that God has surrounded me with. Well, anyway, on to the questions. before we actually do that, can we at least read the text?, that way I can say I read the words to you guys this morning. let's just read through this and just reenter our thoughts back into, what this text actually says.

Then we'll address some of the questions. In verse 9, Paul says, likewise, I want the women to adorn themselves with proper clothing. Modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. Paul is saying, I want the church to be a place of, of feminine beauty, full of beautifully adorned women, both in the attire that they wear and being adorned with good works, with modesty, with self-restraint, and with godliness.

Then in verse 11, Paul says a woman should quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. God, God wants the church to be a place of learning for women. He wants the church to be a place of, that is full of learned and educated women, but he wants women to learn, quietly and with entire submissiveness, with the consciousness of authority. Verse 12, but I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet, for it was Adam who was first created and then Eve, and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression.

But she, Eve, and all the women that she represents will be saved through, last week we went this direction through the childbearing and took that as, perhaps an allusion to the birth of the Messiah, the Christ child who was born of woman. She will be saved through the childbirth or the birth of a child, the Messiah, if Eve and the woman she represents, if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self restraint. well, that's the passage that we've been looking at, and like I said, there have been a number of questions that have been brought to us.

Most of the questions are clustered around, verses, or verse 12 of First Timothy 2, I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man.

But we did have one question, that was asked by several, regarding verse 14, so let's start with that. In verse 14, Paul says it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. So the first question of the day is, so in verse 14, is Paul saying that a woman is more easily deceived than a man. Are women more gullible than men?

There's actually, commentators that would say that's what verse 14 is saying. In fact, one of these commentators I have here on the screen, where he says, the natural interpretation is that women, that woman, a weak and gullible creature, should find her vocation in a life of domesticity and subordination to her husband. Let's keep her stashed away in her home where she can't do any harm to anybody and won't be deceived. I don't think that's what Paul is saying.

In fact, that offends me that this would be viewed in this way. we know from human experience, don't we, that, women are no more prone to deception than men are? Don't we know that? I know that as a married man.

now, women are more prone to certain deceptions than men are, and men are more prone to other deceptions than women are. Amen. There are certain deceptions that I have to battle with that sometimes I'm like a mess and I come to my wife and I'm confessing, what's going on in my head and, and some of the lies I've been caught up in, and she's like listening to me going, she doesn't get it. She doesn't get it.

And then there are things that she shares with me and I absolutely don't get the deception. I don't get how someone could be deceived in that way, but I've observed that both of us are equally prone to deception. Even though the deceptions may be different. Paul is not teaching here, ladies, that you are more gullible than the man is.

He's simply stating a historical fact that the first woman was deceived. And it is what it is in the history of Genesis, it was Eve who was deceived. And the truth is, she was more vulnerable to deception, not because she was a woman, but by virtue of the circumstances. That we find in Genesis, for example, the serpent could have never gone to Adam and said, Yeah, Has God really said?

He couldn't have even tried that on Adam because God said it directly to Adam. But he could do that to Eve because Eve heard it from Adam. So God communicated to Adam, Adam would have communicated to Eve. So by virtue of the fact that Eve had received this secondhand, she was circumstantially in the more vulnerable position and more open to deception.

That's why the serpent went after her rather than after Adam. And we have to be careful when we look at the rationale of Paul. It's, it's easy to look at verse 12. I don't allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, because Adam was created first, then Eve, and the woman blew it, and she was deceived.

That's not, I think we're Being a little too narrow if that's the way we view it. We need to tie verse 11 and 12 together. Paul is saying that the woman must receive instruction, must receive learning with quietness and with entire submissiveness. I don't allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over men.

Verse 13 is the rationale for his policy of verse 12, because it was Adam who was first created, then Eve. and then verse 14 is the rationale for verse 11. All right. Think about it.

He's saying, ladies, I want you to be constantly learning with a spirit of submissiveness. And then he describes the fall where Eve did exactly the opposite of that. Eve had heard from Adam, God's will regarding what to do with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. the serpent shows up and gives her another story.

And Eve, after listening to the serpent, thought, I think I know everything I need to know to make a decision about whether or not to eat this fruit. And so she partook rather than realizing, I think I might have something to learn here and to go to her husband with what the serpent had said and even submitted that to, to Adam. And so had Eve just had that posture of the learner and, and really received what her husband had communicated to her with submissiveness, and then even when the serpent lied to her, for her to be The learner and to go back to her husband and to submit that to him and to get his take on that.

If she would have been the learner, she could have avoided the fate of verse 14.

So in a way, verse 14 is amongst other things, a warning, ladies, and what Paul is saying is if you don't do verse 11, You're going to set yourself up for deception, be always learning and doing so with a spirit of entire submissiveness. So see verse 11 and 12 together rather than seeing verses 13 and 14 as only rationales for what Paul says in verse 12. All right? Totally clear?

Well, we're moving on anyway. question, question number 2, this has been asked, could the fact that Paul begins verse 12 with the words I do not allow indicate that maybe he was just stating a personal preference that is not universally binding? How many of you have heard that question, or maybe you've even asked that?, Paul says, I do not allow. Maybe Paul's speaking to Timothy as a colleague in ministry, and he's saying, well, for me, this is what I don't, this is what I don't allow, but obviously other people might think differently.

well, a few things to say by way of answering this. Remember how Paul begins the letter, Paul, an apostle. He's writing a very, a letter to a very personal friend, Timothy, and yet he begins by saying Paul, an apostle. That's a very formal way to begin a letter to someone Paul is intimately acquainted with, but what it clearly indicates is that everything that's going to come out of Paul's mouth in this letter, he is speaking as an apostle.

Also, it's not unusual or surprising to see words like I do not allow, preceding his policy of verse 12, because if you look in chapter 2, verse 1, He prefaces that by saying, I urge that chapter 2, verse 8, I want the men in every place to pray. Verse 9, I want women to adorn themselves. And now we're not surprised to come to verse 12 where he says, I do not allow. Paul is speaking to Timothy as an apostle and saying, here's, here's what I want as An apostle.

Also, when you look at Paul's rationale, again, this should carry a lot of meaning. Paul says, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet because it was Adam who was created first and then, Eve, Paul is saying the reason for this policy is not personal preference. it goes all the way back to these pre-fall creation realities that when you go to the Genesis account, Adam was created first. Eve was created after Adam, she was created out of Adam, she was created for Adam.

After she was created and brought to Adam, he named her, extending his dominion over her. It is what it is. And Paul is saying there's some pre-fall creation realities here that I'm wanting to honor in the church, and that is the reason for my policy that I am writing to you about and giving to you, Timothy. The truth is, if Timothy was entitled to just set aside verse 12 and verse 13 to just say, well, that's Paul and I'm really glad he took the time to share that with me, but I don't have that policy and I don't interpret Genesis the way that he obviously does.

if Timothy were entitled to set this aside, he pretty much would be entitled to set everything aside that he sees. In the letter And Timothy's supposed to take this letter as validation, is he not? He's got some hard things to do and people are going to say, what right do you have to do this? Paul writes this letter not just to Timothy, but for Timothy so that he could produce the letter and say, the apostle told me to do this, and this is my validation.

Well, if people could point to the letter and say, well, Timothy, you don't even do verse 12. Timothy would lose all moral authority if, if he said, well, I just disagree with Paul there. He would lose all moral authority to enforce the rest of the letter. Consider also that in chapter 3, verse 14 and 15, Paul says, I'm writing these things to you, Timothy.

I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God. I want you to know with certainty, Timothy, we're not just swapping ideas. I want you to know with certainty about these things and what correct, behavior is in the church. So that's another question that was asked.

Hopefully that answer gives you food for thought. A third question that we've been asked is, does 1 Timothy 2:12 forbid a woman to speak truth to men? when he says, I don't allow a woman to teach, exercise authority over a man, does it mean that women are not allowed to speak aloud to men or in the presence of men that a woman is not allowed to share truth with? men, and the answer to that is no.

This passage does not forbid that at all. We saw last week in Matthew 28 the angel at the tomb, and Jesus commanded women to go to the male disciples and give them a wonderful message of truth regarding the bodily resurrection of Jesus from the dead. We see in Acts 2 women. Speaking in tongues right along with the men.

They were prophesying right along with the men, so they're speaking aloud, content of divine revelation and truth in the presence of men. So when you look at that in 1 Corinthians 11:5 where Paul affirms a woman's right to pray and prophesy in the mixed assembly, It's very clear that scripture is affirming a woman's full right and privilege to speak aloud truth to men and in the presence of men. The only thing that's being forbidden here is that Paul is saying that a woman cannot teach a man.

We've seen that teach, the Greek word for teach is a bigger word than our English word teach.

to teach was an act of spiritual authority, where in a person and spiritual authority directed somebody in doctrine, and in practice, telling somebody what to believe and what to do, providing direction. for someone under their charge. We've seen in chapter 3, verse 2 that one of the functions of elders is to teach in chapter 5, verse 17, that's a typo on the screen. In chapter 5, verse 17, the role of elders is to rule or to govern.

And part of what they do by way of ruling is preaching and teaching, so teaching and preaching is a form of communication wherein those in spiritual authority direct people in doctrine. And in practice, Paul is being very clear. I do not allow a woman to direct a man in doctrine and in practice. I do not allow a woman to exercise authority over a man.

But Paul in other passages affirms a woman's right to speak truth and even to prophesy to a man. That raises the next question, that is what is prophesying anyway and does it even happen today? Prophesying, strictly considered, folks, is the speaking forth of divine revelation. Some define it that broadly.

It's just anytime you speak forth God's revelation, even if you're quoting scripture or whatever. But probably the, the strictest definition is that prophecy is the speaking forth of divine revelation that has been freshly supernaturally given by the Holy Spirit. In 1 Corinthians 14:29 and following, you've got Paul saying, let two or three prophets speak and Let them speak one at a time. And if while one prophet is speaking, he says, if a revelation is made to another, then the first guy has to sit down and let the next guy who just received the revelation speak.

So the sense you get is that when people prophesized, they received a revelation from the Lord, and then they communicated that revelation. And so, here at Cornerstone as a staff and as elders, we're still trying to figure all of this out. what exactly is prophecy and so forth, and can it happen today? We don't have dogmatic answers, but our thought is that given the fact that the canon of scripture is closed, That at the very least, I think we would all agree that there is no prophecy happening today that's on the level of the apostolic certitude of scripture, whatever that means.

OK? But having said that, I think most of us intuitively would, would, would agree that there are things that we do that while it may not be prophesying in the strictest sense of the term, it has close kinship with prophesying. we had a woman earlier in our service reading scripture. to us for the benefit of the body.

She was speaking prophetic content, right? She may not have been prophesying in the strictest sense of the term, but she was doing something that had a close kinship with that. wherein she was speaking scripture as she read it, because all of scripture is prophecy given by the Holy Spirit. And so while prophesying may not, in the strictest sense of the term be happening, today, there are many things that we do in the church wherein we're speaking biblical truth, to one another that, that have close kinship.

with that. And so a woman can prophesy or do things that have kinship with that. She can speak biblical truth to a man, but she cannot direct a man. She can speak as a sister to men and speak truth to them, but she cannot direct men in doctrine and in practice.

All right? question number 5. does First Timothy mean that women cannot serve as pastors or elders over men? What would be the answer to that?

Just, the answer would be yes, it means that they cannot. but instead of sounding so prohibitive about it, ladies, let me announce it this way. I've got good news for you. First Timothy 2:12 exempts women from the responsibility of serving as elders.

Sir, to be an elder, to be a pastor, there's a lot of joys that go with that, but there's a lot of burdens that go with that. And And to, to just, I just want you to receive this. You're exempted from that responsibility. And just, just relish that and pray for those that are not exempted from that responsibility that God will bless their ministry to you and to your brothers and sisters., again, Paul says that he does not allow a woman to exercise authority over a man.

Clearly, chapter 5, verse 17, elders rule, they govern. That's an, that's a position of authority. And so Paul would say, eldering is a position of spiritual authority, and therefore, Paul would not. His policy would be to disallow a woman from serving as an elder or a pastor.

You look at chapter 3, verse two. He says an overseer then, or an elder must be above reproach, the husband of one wife. when he gets to deacons, he's going to talk about men and women, but when he's talking about elders, it's just men. Clearly Paul is only thinking of men.

Serving potentially as elders. I don't get the newspaper, but someone in our church was kind enough to cut out an article for me from one of our local papers, from this past week, and the headline says, Woman in the pulpit. It's about a woman that has become, the, I guess the, one of the pastors at a church here in the Riverside community. And they say a lot of great things about this lady and her journey to the pastorate, but it says in the article that this lady was sharing that one of her biggest challenges was persuading her father to accept her calling.

To be a pastor Then it says in the article, he did not believe that women should lead. In this way, but he ultimately resolved not to, quote, stand in the way of what the Holy Spirit is doing. Well, at Cornerstone, we believe that the Holy Spirit has spoken. And we also believe that the Holy Spirit will never lead contrary to what he's already revealed.

The Spirit has worked. He has inspired the apostle Paul and has, I think, made it clear in these verses about what should happen in the church and, and what should not. So don't, don't buy into. the deception that, well, the spirit's moving this way and that's contrary to what it says here, so we'll follow the spirit.

No, the spirit inspired this. Amen. So, we follow at Cornerstone, we're following the Holy Spirit as much as anyone else may claim to be doing. Well, a 6th question is this.

So if women cannot teach or exercise authority over men, here's a question. No one in our church has asked this, but they've talked to people who have asked this, and that is, isn't it demeaning to women to allow them to teach only other women? In the church, and I, I want you to ponder that question. Here's how it can be asked at times.

How can you demean women by allowing them only to teach other women? You got women that are so gifted, she's so eloquent, she knows the word. How can you, how can you demean that woman by, by having her teach only other women? What does that question reveal?

The question itself demeans women, right, who are being taught. And so I wrote this down because I want to say this right. At Cornerstone, we have such a high view of women that we think that for a woman to be given the task of teaching women is a considerable honor. That's what we think of women.

You can take the most gifted orator, female orator, and speaker, who knows the word, who knows God, and if she invests her life in the teaching of other women, her gifts have not been wasted. Women are precious to God. What a precious pri privilege that would be. In fact, it may surprise you to know that, when it, when it comes to, women teaching, it's not like, all right, this lady, she's gifted, she can speak, she's a good teacher, but she can't teach men, so we've got to give her something to do because she's itching to do something.

So, what? Here, ma'am, here's some women over here. Why don't you just teach them and that'll keep you occupied. That's, that's not the spirit of our thinking at all.

This isn't just a bone that, that Paul throws to women to keep them occupied by just shifting them off to teaching other women. Listen, at Cornerstone, we, we have such a high view of the teaching ministry of women that we believe that the teaching ministry of the church is incomplete without it. It's not just a helpful add-on. It's an essential add-on.

we actually believe, if you want to know what we believe about male teaching at Cornerstone, we believe in the insufficiency of solely male teaching of women in the church. Does that make sense? What, what we believe is that if a woman comes to Cornerstone and all of our venues of ministry, if all the teaching she ever gets, is teaching from men, we believe that her experience is less than what God wants her to get from the church. in fact, Titus 2:3 through 5, listen carefully, is an apostolic acknowledgment of the insufficiency of solely male teaching of women in the church.

Paul says to Titus, Titus, I want you to be teaching. He says that in verse 1 of Titus 2, be speaking words of sound teaching. You got to be teaching, man. Have the elders teaching, but what?

You've got to have women on your team. You need to have women teaching other women. Because the women are not going to blossom fully the way God wants them to if all they're hearing is you. So we believe that we're not demeaning women by Assigning them to the role, the God-given role of teaching other women.

We believe that's a considerable honor and it's an essential element of our church ministry. We have to have women who are older in the faith, more mature in the Lord, investing themselves in teaching and instructing women who are younger than them in the faith, teaching them the things that Paul outlines in Titus chapter two. All right. Let's move on.

What would you say, this has come to us actually, from, a few different places. we've been asked, what would you say about the ministries of women who teach men, yet God's blessing seems to be on their ministries. Doesn't God's blessing on them validate? Their approach.

Well, let me say a few things by way of response. God is a God of grace who lavishes His grace on all of us beyond, way beyond what our level of obedience merits. Amen. God has blessed our ministry here at Cornerstone.

Would we look at that and say, well, I guess that means that everything we're doing is exactly the way God wants it to be done? Should we take his blessing as a validation of everything that we're doing? Absolutely not. I would also say to those that would ask this question, how are you measuring blessing?

I'm not denying that these ministries are blessed, but just how are you measuring it by numbers or books sold or books written? just maybe think through how you would define blessing. And also, yes, indeed, God has blessed their ministries. God is a God of grace, but how do that their ministry is as blessed as it could be?

Are they experiencing the maximum degree of blessing that they could be experiencing if they were following the scripture in this area? Those are just some questions to ask yourself, but also refer you to Numbers 20. The children of Israel were in the wilderness in Kadish, and the children of Israel grew thirsty. They began to complain to Moses.

Once again, Moses at this point is so fed up with them, he's ticked. at them and, probably not even happy entirely with God for putting him with these people. And, Moses comes to God. God says, Moses, I want you to stand before the rock and I want you to speak to the rock in the presence of the people of Israel.

Water's going to come out of the rock and I'll meet their needs. What did Moses do? Moses struck the rock twice. I don't know all that was going on, but we know that Moses clearly disobeyed God.

And God took that disobedience so seriously that by the end of Numbers 20 God said, you're not getting into the promised land, Moses, because of what you just did. So God himself tells Moses, you just committed a serious sin that disqualifies you from the promised land. But guess what? Water came out of the rock.

And over a million Israelites had plenty of water to drink and all of their livestock. God blessed, in spite of the complaining spirit of the people of Israel, he blessed, in spite of Moses' disobedience to God's clear instructions. So let us never use God's blessing upon us or any other person or ministry as a validation for like everything that we or they. Might be doing.

The fact that God is blessing their ministry and that that might be evident, that means nothing to me about whether they're doing what God wants them to do in this particular area or not. Let's just look at the scripture and gauge what they're doing by scripture, not by some arbitrary standard of whether they're being blessed or not. Another question, this is more of a practical one that's been brought to us, is how should Christians handle books or other resources written or put out by women who believe it is OK to teach men?

Is it wrong for Christians to read, study resources put out by these women?

No, it's not wrong. All right, question number 9. real quickly, no, it's not wrong. God's blessing in these women's lives and ministries plunder the wisdom that God has, given to them.

They're, they're your sisters in the Lord, and I'm sure you have much to gain from them. So it's not wrong for you to, receive, whatever they might offer just like it would not have been wrong for you to drink the water in Numbers 20. OK? I'm sure if you were there, you would have drank the water anyway, even though Moses didn't do what God said.

So, receive whatever benefit that they might have to offer you that is from the Lord. At the same time, consider among your options women, And ministries led by women who are making the very difficult decision to toe the line on this very subject we're talking about. And they're not letting themselves be put in positions of teaching authority over men, though they've been tempted to. and they've made very tough choices, and I think we can applaud them for their faithfulness to the Lord and willingness to maybe even have a smaller ministry just so that they can live in obedience to what they understand God to be saying in his word.

And so these, these women have much to offer you as well. And their ministries are very much worthy of your support. So, So, look around. There's actually a lot of women who are making right decisions on this subject that, that have much, very much to offer you., ninth question that we have been asked is this.

So, if women cannot teach or exercise authority over men in the church, but they can do things akin to prophesying, like speaking biblical truth, then what does that look like at Cornerstone? Well, let's just get real practical in a bullet point way. what this means at Cornerstone, Is our boys age 13 and up are taught only by men. We drew an arbitrary line in Bible times, just as in modern times when a Jewish boy turns 13, he becomes the son of the commandment, fully adult rights, privileges, and responsibilities.

He's judged under the law as a man. And so, that's just a very arbitrary line that we've drawn. Others draw it in different places. But at Cornerstone, all of our boys, 13 and up are being taught by, by men.

Also, we have only male elders. And, pastors, also, only male adult Sunday school teachers. Now, obviously, if we had a class for women, that would be fine to have a woman, teach that class, but for mixed classes, it's only men. We also have male care group leaders, all of whom are assisted by their wives who make a wonderful contribution.

And also just on a very practical level, in our care groups, we only have male discussion leaders for mixed discussions. Now we have women leading women discussions, but men leading discussions. that are of a mixed audience composed of men and women. The reason for that is leading a discussion is more than just saying, OK, question number 2, and just reading off questions.

Leading a discussion when it's rightly done, a person is exercising authority. Sometimes, we've never had any women come to us saying, I want to lead a discussion where men are in attendance. No one's been asking for that. but imagine ladies, being in a position of leading a discussion and you've got a man who is being too talkative.

And it's up to you as the leader to rein him in and maybe to silence him or forcefully direct the conversation elsewhere. Maybe there's a man getting on a rabbit trail, getting off topic, and you're going to have to pull that back onto topic. Maybe, maybe a man says something that's biblically wrong and the role of a discussion leader in a situation like that is to deal with that tactfully, but perhaps to minister a correction. Or maybe a conflict arises between a couple of people.

I've seen that happen in a care group discussion. when a person is leading a discussion, they're in a situation where not all of it is leadership, but they find themselves in a situation where leadership is called for and an exertion of authority is called for. And so at Cornerstone, we, we have men leading discussions in Our, mixed discussion times. Having said that, what else does it look like at Cornerstone?

Women can prophesy, they can speak truth. So, at Cornerstone, women can speak truth from the platform and from the pew. We had women up here today. In fact, when we were singing, by the way, all of you ladies, if you sang out loud, you were speaking out loud either prayerful content to the Lord in this mixed Assembly, or you were speaking biblical truth for your own benefit, and for the benefit of your brothers and sisters in the Lord.

As you were singing, you were ministering to everyone, including me, as you spoke truth and prayerful content. And the same is true up on the platform, women can, can speak truth from the platform. They can read scripture. We had a lady do that this morning, and that's not something that's the exclusive province of men.

Ladies can do this in the mixed assembly. It's akin to prophesying. It's not prophesying, but close enough akin to that, to where if the Bible allows a woman to prophesy, then certainly the Bible would allow a woman to read prophetic content, the pages of Scripture. Also, we believe First Corinthians 11 affirms that a woman can pray publicly in a mixed assembly.

And, also at Cornerstone, we believe women can share what God is teaching them even from the word. I remember a couple of years ago, we had Juanita Fike, one of our missionaries that we as a church support and, It was in an evening service and we had her share, she spoke for about half an hour to our mixed assembly, telling us what God was doing in her ministry. And then she even opened up her Bible and shared with us the truth from God's word. As a sister, she was just saying, I, I want to share with you something that God's been showing me and blessing me with.

And it was about creation, how incredible it is, and yet how that's but the fringes of God's ways. Still remember what she shared. That's OK. God affirms that.

She was speaking to us as a sister sharing what God had been blessing her with. That's very different than directing us in doctrine and practice from a position of authority. You guys understand the difference? So anyway, that's just some of the things that it looks like.

We, we want our women to be as involved in, in all of these things as possible. Sisters, you have so much to contribute to your brothers and to your other sisters, and we want to the very maximum degree possible our ladies to be mobilized and, and active in our times of mixed assembly, be it care group or in our times of worship. What about parachurch organizations? Are they exempt from 1 Timothy 2:12?

real quickly, guys, chapter 2, verse 1, Paul says, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions, thanksgivings be made on behalf of all men. Do parachurch organizations want to do that? Probably. verse 8, I want the men in every place, not just the church, to pray.

should a man look at that and say, well, I only need to do that when I'm at church or participating with my local church, but when I'm involved in my para church organization, I'm happy to know that I don't need to pray. No, everyone would take this as, as applying to all situations. Verse 9, likewise, I want the women to adorn themselves with proper clothing modest, modestly. Would it make sense for a woman to read this and say, well, this is regulating behavior in the local church.

So, what I learned from this is I need to dress modestly when I'm involved in the local church, but thank goodness I don't have to dress modestly when I'm involved with my para church. No, no woman would think that way. We would take all of these things as, as applying both in the local church and out. And just for the sake of time, verse 13, Paul gives his rationale.

He says, I, I want us to do this as a part of the local body. I don't allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. And the reason is, and he points our attention to a pre-fall creation reality outside the church. So here we are in the church, and Paul points to this reality and says, that's the reason.

This is what I want to honor and what we do in the church. So I would think that a parachurch organization that is committed to carrying out Christ's mission on Earth, which all parachurch organizations that claim the name of Christ would, would, I think, want to do. That I, I think they would also do well to look at that same reality and say, to whatever degree it is possible, given whatever structure we have, we too want to join with the church in honoring this reality because apparently something very fundamental is at stake that doesn't just get altered depending on what setting that you might be in.

So, I, I would see what Paul says here as applying to, that a, a parachurch organization would want to seek to apply this, to their situation also.

question number 11, how do we deal with people who disagree with us on this issue? Write down the word anathema. You pronounce anathema on them. I'm kidding.

And we're short on time. I shouldn't be doing this. first of all, ask yourself, is this a difference in application or in principle? There are people that agree with us in principle, but they draw the lines differently.

At Cornerstone, we draw the line at 13 for our boys. but there might be a Christian organization or another church that draws the line at 14 or 15 or 16, and they totally agree with us in principle. So that's an applicational difference that we don't want to. Get worked up, over, if there's a difference in principle, on this subject, let me give you three key words.

First of all, grace. Give to these brothers and sisters the same grace that you need from them for all the ways that you fall short, OK? Yes, they may be falling short in this area and they need grace from you, but give them the same grace that you actually require from them, we're all on a journey and maybe that's just where they are right now. Give them grace and give God an opportunity to, to work.

You're not who you were 5 years ago. When I think of who I was 5 years ago, I can't believe any of you wanted to hang around me 5 years ago. but I'm thankful for the grace that you've given to me over the years. But the second thing to do is, this is a serious issue and it goes to some core fundamental realities by God's design and Express those concerns and try to point them to the scripture.

we had a lady in our church that just last week tried to take a sister from another church who disagrees on this area, tried to take her to the Bible very gently to look at these passages, and this other sister said, I'm not going there. I'm not going there. And the lady in our church tried again very gently, and this other lady said, I am not going there. I'm not going there.

She refused to even go to the Bible, to the text of scripture, and in a case like that, the heart begins to reveal itself, but do your best to draw their attention to the scripture. But then lastly, Even if that fails, then you just obey God, and, and live in obedience to God and show the attractiveness of obedience to God. Show them what obedience to God in this area looks like. There are brothers and sisters that, that don't practice what we've been learning, not because they hate God and they hate the scripture.

It's just from their background, they've never seen it done right. And they equate this with abuse because they've seen abuse happen. So, show them the attractiveness and the beauty of obedience to the Lord in this area. Well, we have 2 more questions to go and about 1 minute left.

And so, you're going to be totally amazed. Watch this. What's this business about head coverings in 1 Corinthians 11? Wasn't that a cultural thing?

And what does the application of 1 Corinthians 11:216 look like? Well, we're out of time. And I knew that we would be, but I mentioned in the service last week that I've been working over the last 78 years on a, a book that's about 130 pages right now. And a lot of, a lot of people asked for it and it's just a summation of all the work that I've done collected into one place.

And we made 22 copies. and have them in the information booth. I think we're down to just very few. We're going to have more next week, but this is, this is all of the work that I've done on the passage, and I offer this humbly as a contribution to what I hope will be a gracious yet earnest ongoing conversation.

As a community about what God is saying in this passage. All right. 1 Corinthians 11:2 through 16 is a part of God's word. And if we love God, we will value every word that falls from his lips.

And so I offer this, as a help, to that, that study. Also, if you want the sermons, there were 9 messages on that passage that we preached back in 2002. we've got those at the information booth. You're welcome to pick those up.

You can go online, go under resources, sermon downloads, go to 2002, and you can access those messages, online. The last question is, 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 35 says that women are to be silent in the churches and that they cannot even speak in church. How does that fit? Well, Appendix B of this book.

If I could draw your attention to this resource, addresses that question, and it's a 7 page just overview of that passage and an attempt to handle that. And again, I offer that just for your help as you try to sort through that, passage. Let us all, guys, on this issue and every, issue, walk in a spirit of grace. Let us receive God's word with great eagerness.

Let us examine the scriptures daily to see if what God is indeed saying to us is so or what others may be saying to us is. Indeed. So, let's, pray together. By the way, if the Lord leads you to give in the offering today, you're welcome to do so.

Any comments or prayer requests, you can put those on the church. or on the comment card and we'll pray over those in our staff meeting. OK. Let's, let's look to the Lord and, Prayer together Lord, we thank you for your word.

We thank you for the passages that fall so tenderly into our hands with very little effort. We thank you for passages that are a little higher on the tree and that we have to struggle a little bit to get them off the branches and you, that's all a part of your sovereign plan. And so help us to be willing to do the hard work of searching out your mind and to honor you by the hard work. Do.

I thank you for these people and how earnestly they search the scriptures and how that at the end of the day all they want, God, tell us what you're saying in your word and we'll Whether that's what the culture wants or not, we want to. and, You that we love Above all, As we walk this path and Give us grace towards all we give ourselves to you. and